Some adore him and others don’t, but Chris Brogan’s influence in social media is irrefutable. And he spends a good amount of his time getting in front of blue chip companies who listen to what he has to say. I recently had a chance to catch up with Chris and we chatted about engagement, ecosystems and the down side of social media rock stardom. Have a read and please share your thoughts as well.
David Armano: You recently wrote “following doesn’t equal engagement”. First, what does engagement mean to you? Secondly, how do you measure something like engagement and what does it get you?
Chris Brogan: Engagement to me is the establishment and maintenance of a two way connection. It’s the opportunity to go beyond typical “coverage” and “marketing” into a place where we can talk back and forth. Maybe not every little tidbit, but enough. If engagement is important, I measure it by things like comments, by signups or other conversions, by links clicked in a call-to-action (if that’s the end desire). It would depend on the process.
DA: We had a few brief exchanges of what it means for people to perceive you as a “rock star” or “guru”. What’s the upside to labels like this and do they have a downside as well?
CB: I think there aren’t many upsides to being the rockstar or guru. I think it means that people will think you buy your own press, that you drink your own Kool-Aid. I think that gurus and rockstars who live that life are just perpetuating the me-vs-them myth.
DA: You’ve really become a household name, at least when it comes to the microcosm of social media and marketing to some extent. You’ve also gotten your fair share of criticism. What have you learned from both experiences?
CB: From being the household name, I’ve learned that what I’ve believed since the 80s was true: that relationships are much more valuable than well-crafted copy. From critics, I learn the most. Those critics who say I’m not delivering value need only talk to my clients (mostly Fortune 100/500). For those who say I’m not as legendary as they are, they’re right. I’m not.
DA: Your travel schedule and appearances rivals that of celebrities and politicians—do you ever wake up in the morning and think, “I can’t do this anymore”? What keeps Chris Brogan humming? And, do you actually hum?
CB: I sometimes get a bit tired of the travel, but what I’ve learned is that clients don’t come to me. I’ve learned that audiences who want to share what I know and what they know rarely travel more than a few miles to get that information. I’ve learned that what keeps me humming are the brilliant stars I find in the crowd from town to town. I almost always meet someone who really lights up from inside, and those people make it worthwhile. Do I hum? I sure do.
DA: Nearly every industry is abuzz with social media related chatter. Do you think it’s worth the attention it gets? Why or why not?
CB: I think social media will flash and then simmer. It’s at the brightest part of the flash right now. I’m watching the curve drop. I don’t much mind. In the mean time, I’m showing businesses what to do of value in these arenas. To me, the value will come from improved relationships, guest experience design, and a stronger wiring of listening and monitoring into the core business.
DA: Cream cheese or butter?
CB: Butter. Good one.
DA: You’ve been using Google Wave to collaborate and seem to like it—how is this usage shaping your views on the way organizations will use the Web to work together?
CB: I love Google Wave. It’s really changing the way I see a few things. I’m seeing more value in small private communities lately. It’s where I’m getting my most value-per-hour on the web right now. How will companies use it? This really is the future starting point of collaboration. Wave is much smarter than endless email threads and document pass-back-and-forths. It needs LOTS of work to go mainstream, but I love what they’ve done so far. I’m a fan.
DA: How have you dealt with the limitations of a single person being able to scale. You do a great job engaging on Twitter, but we can’t see your DMs or e-mail. How do you cope with the amount of requests that come your way?
CB: I’m having a really tough time scaling. I get several hundred (over 600) emails a day, plus maybe 50 daily contact form requests, plus about 200 DMs, plus several hundred @ messages, plus 50-100 comments a day. It’s getting to be hairy. I have an assistant that helps with the contact forms. I have New Marketing Labs to help with client-related work. I’m doing the rest myself. It will crush me. I’m working on even more ways to share the wealth.
DA: You’ve talked about the idea of looking at your initiatives in social media as an ecosystem as opposed to a set of tactics—what do you mean by ecosystem and how does this apply to the CMO looking to get a million Facebook fans?
CB: When I say ecosystems, I’m looking for how one thing touches another and how all the various “organisms” in such systems will work together. I never sell anyone Twitter. I sell them presence management tied to channel development. For CMOs looking for a Million facebook fans, I ask them, “how will you convert those to buyers? Putting a million people through your storefront but not ringing the register isn’t very useful, is it?”
DA: We seem to be entering a more sober phase in business where accountability and cost savings are becoming increasingly critical. Does this present opportunities or challenges to a medium that’s increasingly built on relationships?
CB: Sober is a great way to say it. I’m thrilled that we’ve got answers to what we’re really doing, versus the gee whiz stuff. I’m thrilled that we’re selling projects that have listening technology, measurement technology, conversion strategies, and content marketing efforts in place. I’m thrilled that we’re not selling Twitter accounts and Facebook pages. So, to me, the future is golden. For everyone? Oh no. But then, they jumped on, thought about a quick win, and are ready to jump off. Me? I’ve been in this mess for over a decade. I’m in my element.
Image credit: CC Chapman
